Author Brandon Sanderson jumped into the Stormlight_Archive subreddit and r/WoT subreddit over the holiday weekend to answer questions, give updates, and generally be awesome (you can see most of the answers collected here) and naturally we got some additional details on how the Wheel of Time TV show is progressing.
Sanderson initially commented that the TV show would have noticeable differences from the books, then elaborated:
I found the mast [sic] majority of these decisions to be excellent choices–things that will give the show its own soul, but still in line with the feel and tone of the books. I can’t say for certain, but my instincts say the fanbase will in general respond to them positively. There are a few I offered suggestions on, and we’ll see.
I can’t say too much, not just because of NDAs, but also because the show is very much still in flux as Rafe makes decisions on how he wants things to go. As the alterations go, I’d say they fall in line with positive changes made in bringing LOTR to the big screen–things that were altered in order to make the films work for the medium.
Overall, the thing I’m most impressed with is Rafe himself, who really seems to be guiding this show with a balance between love for the source material and his own creative vision. I’d much rather get this, personally, than something like the first two Harry Potter films–which felt like someone trying to bring the books to the screen with exact scene-by-scene recreations.
I’m certain there will be polarizing decisions made by the team, but the changes are coming from a good place, and I really like most of them. And let me tell you, the first of the two scripts I read was sharp. Excellent dialogue, nuanced characters, great pacing. The second of the two was in a rougher shape, so while still good, obviously was still undergoing revisions.
Although showrunner Rafe Judkins has mentioned previously that the show (or at least its opening episodes) will center around Moiraine, it remains to be seen what other changes may take place as the narrative shifts from the books to television. And, as Sanderson mentions, since scripts and casting and filming are still ongoing, we’re not liable to know about any changes for sure until the show nears its premiere.
I am fine with changes as long as they don’t change the character and ditch moments that define their complexity and drives. A perfect example of this is Ready Player One and what they did to Wade. You can change a lot, but they failed the character.
@1 I agree for the most part. However I wouldn’t be mad in any way if the sequence of events change or minor characters are consolidated or anything like that. As long as the themes stay largely consistent with the books I will be happy. Also they better get Captain Domon right or I will riot ;)
@3. True, but remember that there is a lot of internal dialog in the book. Without that in the show, it could happen easily where they can become to shallow and they have no drive but somehow are rewarded with doing amazing things.
I’m pretty excited :)
That word, majority, scares me…
@3 – I agree. Just consider how annoying Mat would be as a character if we didn’t have his internal monologue. The difference between his thoughts and his actions is one of the key elements of that (plus we’d have no clue where he was getting his mad general skillz from).
@6 Exactly. Look at what internal monolog did for Wayne in Mistborn Era 2.
I guess I just have to accept that I’m in the tiny minority of people who would prefer an attempt at a “scene-by-scene recreation” than a director’s artistic re-imagining.
@2 in the spirit of the sentences prior to your final one, you might should prepare yourself that Domon may not even make it into the show.
They could remove the entire ‘Faile gets kidnapped by the Shaido’ plot without hurting the story flow much. We’d just need an explanation for what Perrin was doing for a few months.
One option might be a shifting POV. It does make sense that Moraine is the center at first, since she is the one driving the start of the story.
Nonetheless, I think we should be prepared to lose much of the internal monologue versus external actions. That’s unfortunately, since it is used so effectively in the books. It’s either that or they have character voiceovers or lots of exposition talking to a chosen character standing in for the watcher. They’ll probably use a mix of all three, plus hopefully some good acting on top.
It’s interesting to me that the first 2 HP movies are listed as weaker because of the dedication to scene-by-scene recreation when the later movies were so widely criticised as being legitimately inferior to the books because there where creative vision decisions that had to be made regarding which aspects of the story and character to focus on… This does not inspire me.
I’m so excited just to see it in this form I’ll love it as long as it’s not an utter dumpster fire. I would be worried about casting, but I think the major issue with book to screen is the look of characters and there are pretty set ideas for the WoT cast. Actual biggest question personally is how to handle the One Power, especially since some characters can’t see it being used, just the effects.
This article does not inspire confidence in me at all.
I think the issue with the first 2 HP movies is not that they stuck slavishly to the source material, but that the first 2 books were the weakest ones in the series. The series really hit it’s stride in book 3, which I’ve seen widely regarded by the fandom as the best book. The director for book 3 barely paid lip service to the source material, going so far as not even explaining who the Marauders were or constructing a movie that made any sense on it’s own.
@@@@@14. Austin
I agree. I skip PoA on every re-watch of the HP movies. It’s just plan bad and actively unpleasant to sit through. The pacing is so off that the point where they decide to go back in time physically feels like the end of the movie and everything after that is badly segwayed fanfic.
And the fact that this article is saying that THAT is a superior movie to the first 2, which are mostly different from the first because of the TONE of the books (the series is still overwhelming charming and positive and it’s all about introducing you to this literal magical world and scene setting), is really not a great position to argue from. I am have doubt.
:c Unfortunately for me, Mr. Sanderson’s treatment of the WoT world left such a bad taste in my mouth that I haven’t reread any of the books since the release of A Memory of Light. I don’t trust his judgement on what does and does not constitute a good reworking or change to the series. I approach this adaptation with dread.
Two examples of fantasy books to movies that failed… Eragon and Shadowhunters of the infernal devices series. Lost the story completely, and they failed miserably.
Just remembered another…StarWars books 2-3 movies. Anakin Skywalker and Padme Amidala characters were shallow and sad. Distracting from the story.
It is a fine line between telling the story and being true to the “self talk” of the characters so you don’t lose the character’s realism/depth.
I can only hope that the story remains intact and the character’s thoughts are shown through their actions.
Being Hopeful!
I for one am excited to finally be able to have the arguments over what was a good/bad change and whether the adaption lives up to the original for WoT the way that I have for so long on everything else. I might watch Bakshi Hobbit in celebration.
@16 Interesting. I was burning out on the series after books 9, 10, and 11, so 12 – 14 felt like a breath of fresh air to me.
Nothing I’m about to say is said with a negative tone. I’m not necessarily saying any of this is bad or wrong, I’m just stating a prediction. My hope is that the show will simply be a good show, and will have plots and themes that would make sense within the WoT setting that we are familiar with. That will be enough to satisfy me. We’ll see. I’m still excited to see what they do.
I predict the series will only follow the very broad points of the series i.e. major characters by name, Aes Sedai, general plot of Rand becoming the Dragon and a looming Tarmon Gai’don, etc. The major characters will probably have the same general personalities and special powers. Appearances will be subject to change so much that some of the actors’ races will even change, much less trying to maintain eye/hair color, height, etc. Anyone not without question considered a major character is subject to being removed from the story, including fan favorites like Verin. The show will start similarly with the cast leaving Emond’s Field, but from there the story can go in practically any direction, with plotlines from much later books being shifted into the early part of the story and vice versa. For example, I wouldn’t even be surprised to see the group get separated, and season 1 ending with Rand going to Tear to get Callandor rather than going to the Eye of the World.
If the casting is going on, how can we audition? I grew up on these books and would love to be a part of this.
@20
https://kvhcasting.com/
Try to contact them.
@14, @15
I’m shocked to hear that opinion. Between me, my wife, and our friends the consensus is that Prisoner of Azkaban was by far the best of the HP movies… and it’s not even close. PoA works great stylistically and as a transition towards the darker tone of the later part of the series, both with the story, the tension and the more mature visual aesthetic. And of course a very strong assist from John Williams at the top of his game. Sure there were elisions and artistic liberties taken, but it works as a film.
If WoT-the-series can achieve half of what PoA did, I’ll be very happy. But is Rafe Judkins the next Alfonso Cuaron… or the next David Benioff and D.B. Weiss? I think if there’s anything these adaptations have taught us is that they are simply different, and can never and should never replace the written books.
I have to put myself down as one of those who isn’t exactly being reassured by this.
If it’s like Lord of the Rings, than this is probably a good thing– but IMO Lord of the Ring stuck very closely to the books, and alterations, when they occured, were because the way the scene was written in the books would have been difficult to work on film, or otherwise elements needed that were needed to be introduced, were introduced in narration which simply wouldn’t fly in a visual medium.
I find it very troubling that Sanderson is holding up the first two harry potter films as an example of adapting a book badly. For one, the first harry potter film certainly didn’t stick as close to the source material as a scene-by-scene recreation might suggest, and neither did Chamber of Secrets, and for another, those two films were fantastic enough to launch the whole Harry Potter Film franchise outside of the books. Hell, Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone is the second highest grossing Harry Potter film, beat only by Deathly Hallows Part 2. I mean, for goodness sake, Roger Ebert gave it 4 stars! In contrast, PoA was when the the films started drifting a lot from the books, and it’s the only film that didn’t break 800 million in the box office. Beloved by critics, not particularly a big hit with the fans.
In fact, I’d argue that after Chamber of Secrets, and before Deathly Hallows, the Harry Potter films suffered a lot because they didn’t stick very close to the books. Goblet of Fire, while a fun enough, and good enough, film, cut out all the other bits that put the triwizard thing in context. Half-Blood Prince completely excesses every Riddle memory except the Slughorn one and Dumbledore’s. I’ll grant that viewing such memories likely would have been a bit of a slog, since it’s very expositiony, but understanding Tom Riddle’s history and behaviours is kind of important for the last book/films.
As a counterpoint to all that, consider all the books-turned-films over the years that are gung ho about deviating from the source material, either to make something more marketable or to suit someone’s creative vision, and how badly they’ve turned out. There’s a hell of a lot of them, that’s for sure.
Huh. Honestly, Prisoners of Azkaban is both my favorite book, and my favorite movie. There are a few things that I do feel got very short changed in the movie version (basically anything having to do with the Marauders/Snape) but I still loved the feel and look of it.
It’s going to be its own thing. I’m okay with that. I prefer to think of adaptations as ‘inspired’ by the books. As long as it doesn’t totally undermine the main themes or completely assasinate the characters, I’m interested to see where they go with it, and how they distill it.
If you are looking for an exact recreation of the books, you are going to be disappointed.
The early Harry Potter movies were not great movies despite spawning a number of other films. The other films were spawned, not because the films were great, but because they made money. The later ones were better because the adaptation, directing, acting and effects were better despite the deviations from the books.
It is very difficult to do an adaptation that follows books precisely because of differences in the medium. In the best cases, you get something that mimics the feel of the source material despite the differences (Lord of the Rings, early Game of Thrones) or something that is different but great in it’s own right even though it is very different (Jurassic Park).
In the worst cases, you get something that abandons the feel and scenes in a book and is just poorly made as well (The Dark Tower, Ender’s Game).
I’m hoping we get more LotR and Jurassic Park and less Dark Tower and the Hobbit.
I loved PoA as a book. It did everything credited to it above. And more. But the movie is just Bad. From a pacing standpoint alone, it feels like two separate movies very badly segwayed together at the point where the Holy Trio jump back in time. The whole Lupin is a werewolf and this is an Issue is an afterthought tacked on at the very last minute. It’s just… not fun to watch. At all. I loved the book and still enjoy reading it when I do a re-read, though.
I actually disagree with the decision to make moiraine the primary character, even if only for the first few episodes. The books start out with Rand’s inner monologue on the road to Emond’s Field,and throughout the entire first book the inner monologues are taken from that of the Emond’s Fielders, and those primarily of Rand, Mat, and Perrin…then Nynaeve, almost every other character is mentioned or described in the third person. Later in the books those perspectives do widen to encompass a greater number of characters, but the central plotline follows three Ta’veren first, the rest are more supporting-type characters.
I love this series. Have read it a few times over the years. Although I wasn’t happy with the outcome, I don’t blame Sanderson; no one could have finished off the series like the original author. About the series, I refuse to get excited. After what they did to Shannara, with it’s Disney teen type characters and bad acting, don’t know if I can watch it.
Sounds like they are looking more to New Spring than Eye of the World for the opening.
Thankfully that You Tube short, ‘the dragon reborn’ (or something like that) sets the lowest possible standard imaginable; meaning it sure better not suck as much as that short.
For you LOTR fans, I think the films are amazing; but I have been rereading the books and now I find it very hard to imagine not have a strong presence of the Dunedien (sp?) in the films. In the books they provide an essential source of support for Aragorn, but we made it through the movies without much of them. All this is to say, I think you have to treat the mediums as separate vehicles to tell the tale; the films should help us interpret the books and vice/versa.
the only other thing I wonder, like others above, is what will be left-out.
RIP Tom Bombadil
I’m slightly worried that they’ll screw up the story somehow, but the first 2-3 books have enough potential that there should be something worthwhile to get from the series regardless. From what I’ve seen online so far, it seems like they will be going with longer episodes but pushing through the material pretty quickly, so that book 1 will be around e6 (out of 10-12) and probably the end of book 2 will be the end of season 1. Which means there’s going to be cuts and streamlining, but that also means they’ll be focused scripts and episodes, more like LoTR or GoT than say Legend of the Seeker or Shadowhunters.
I don’t know why the HP movies are somehow being brought into this, but IMO Prisoner of Azkaban was a very good film and did a great job at making the world come alive, when compared to the first two movies. However, it was also less faithful to the books and I think the later films rolled back alot of the stuff that Curaron tried to do. Also, the first two movies also had younger actors, and had to deal with figuring out alot of how to put those books on the screen, so they had to do more pioneering work that the rest of the films benefitted from.
Going back to WoT, it seems most likely we’ll get two season with the first 3-4 books put on the screen and then the rest depends on what kind of numbers Amazon gets from this. While I enjoyed the entire series and would be in for the long haul, I think that the first three books are some of the best in the series, though book 4 was one of my overall favourites, so I’d be happy with that.
oh, oh!
please make sure they pronounce ‘teraboner’ correctly. Oh my god, “earth-boner”, they’ll ruin everything!
is Michael Kramer helping on the project? He’s put some time in on those tomes.
The third HP book is my favorite, but the third movie is the only one I can’t rewatch because it’s so bad. The later ones don’t really make sense if you don’t know the books, but they are still better than the third.
Is it even possible to watch WoT if you don’t want to sign up for Amazon? If not why should I even care if the series is any good?
I have been casting these books in my head for decades when I couldn’t fall asleep at night. My fear is not minor changes or supporting plotlines or characters removed. It is the Legend of The Seeker fear. They DESTROYED that series by changing the most fundamental relationships in that show compared to the books. A person who is a father in the books is a brother in the TV series. It completely changes the dynamic between the characters. What if they took out Rand’s parentage completely? Part of his character building and growing is finding out who his parents were. This is what I fear. The short sightedness of a script writer and director who don’t know how the story has the characters grow and change in the 16 books and only myopicly focus on the first book and remove a needed side character necessary for the main characters to grow. That is my biggest fear.
I hope Rafe does not go full PC on the characters. I know there will be pressure to include every racial group and sexual orientation in to the cast. The Shanarra Chronicles did that and changed many of the characters to fit for all ethnic groups. I think it was a mistake. Trying to shoehorn every ethnic group in to the cast is unnecessary. The characters are well developed in the books and Rafe should stick to casting actors that look like the characters in the book.
Its been awhile since Ive reread this series I’ve been so caught up in other series since this one ended. Waffling btwn a reread or just watching the show. Strongly suspect my GoT approach and just watching the show and enjoying it for what it is, is the best approach.
Unless there are some ultra weird extra rape or boob scenes there shouldn’t be a problem. Would be nice if they modernized it though with an eye towards inclusion and creativity
Starting with New Spring is a good choice imo. In reality they will need to trim a lot of fat to make this giant story fit for TV. I’m kind of worried because many of the characters are extremely frustrating even with the benefit of inner dialog and motivation. I hope they can keep from making all the strong personalities seem too wool headed, lol.
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Some people in the Wheel of TIme community think that the people from the Two Rivers aren’t actually white. If we look at The Eye of the World and stop equating Two Rivers with rural England or Ireland (they have English/Irish accents, according to a letter Jordan himself wrote) and realize that Jordan did a mish-mash of culture, ethnicity, clothing and accents with all his cultures, then we can see that living like in rural England (but tending tabacco, which is a New World crop) doesn’t make the Two Rivers people into English or hobbits. I thought so, because so much reminded me of Lord of the Rings at the beginning, but it might be that Jordan tried to make his worldbuilding more diverse at the beginning than we give him credit for.
At the beginning of the Eye of the World (chapter 4) Rand remarks how Thom and Lan have blue eyes. He notices that because only peddlers and gleemen (i.e. foreigners) have blue eyes, and very rarely so, everyone in the Two Rivers has dark eyes. The Congars and Coplins bullied Rand when he was a child due to having grey eyes. He wonders if there’s a place in the world in which everyone has blue eyes, just like everyone in the Two Rivers has dark eyes, and wonders if Lan and Thom come from there.
In chapter 31, Rand remarks that Mistress Grinwell’s hair is yellow, a color of hair he has never seen before. This happens in a place that’s very far away from the Two Rivers, after they’re separated from Thom in Whitebridge. That’s, like, more than 100 miles of distance to see the first person with yellow hair in someone’s 20 years of life.
In chapter 40, when Rand enters the Royal Palace of Andor and is brought to Morgase, Elaida remarks that he looks strange for a person from the Two Rivers. People there don’t have his height, his hair color, his eye color or his skin color. She pushed back his coat sleeve, exposing lighter skin the sun had not reached so often, and then said that people from the Two Rivers didn’t have “such skin”.
So one has to wonder how the Duopotamians actually look. They’re never described as coppery skinned, like Taraboners or Domani, or nearly as dark as the Seafolk. Cenn Buie is described as “gnarled and dark as an old root”, while Juilin Sandar, a Tairen, is described thus: “look like he has been carved from aged wood”, “hard dark man”, “seemingly carved from some dark wood”.
So one wonders, if they actually cast non-whites as most people from the Two Rivers, maybe they’re actually being faithful to the source material.
@37
I always envisioned the people from the Two Rivers as looking sort of Southern European, so relatively light skinned but with dark hair and eyes (like many people in France or perhaps Spain)… But not as pale as red-haired Rand :)
The way I see it is that the directors and screenwriters are in a pickle as to what to do. If they try to stick completely to the books it will be near impossible to get the true internal monologues and each characters view. So they need to make a few changes to make the Script so it actually fits into the movie. But if they make too many changes then the lore nazis will riot. I don’t think we should be too critical of the creators for their changes.
That being said, they could bosh the entire series very easily. The entire series relies upon the different stories and view points of each group. They can’t really represent the stories very well on screen due to limitations. So I understand why they would choose to simply follow one character. Thusly they are going to need to make a few plot changes so you actually understand their stories and understand, say, what happened when the group split at shadar logath. Hopefully they don’t change it too much.
They can’t follow just Moiraine for the whole series, reasons obvious for those who have read it. Unless they’re gonna send Mat and Thom into the tower much earlier than in the books.
@37, define ‘White’. I always imagined the Two Rivers’ folk as olive skinned like southern Europeans and some North Africans. One of the girls being taken for training in the Tower is described as having light brown hair.
@41 – agreed. That was my take as well…maybe because I’m also olive skinned/dark haired, but it’s always funny to me that people assume ‘white’ must mean fair/light haired.
I’m pretty optimistic about this. Nuanced characters and good dialogue are much more important to me than anything else. And I would much rather watch an interpretation of WoT that has its own authorial viewpoint and doesn’t feel like there’s no longer a reason to read the books than a precise adaptation. (Not to mention that a more faithful adaptation would land firmly in “Oh crap it’s the last season and our Rand is 45 years old” territory.)
I respectfully disagree about avoiding adding diversity, for two reasons:
1. The diversity is already there, but some of it is delayed till after WoT. A whole Season 1 that’s a whiteout is a very poor representation of the story.
2. If it takes too long to have some positive dark-skinned characters onscreen, then the Shara reveal years down the road will end up super distasteful. Easy fix: make Siuan a black Tairen like Juilin. And maybe feature Hend more prominently among the Heroes (because a superhero teamup between King Arthur and John Henry is peak WoT anyway).
Personally I won’t be at all surprised if they decide to make Rand and the Aiel dark skinned. Anything is possible in the name of inclusion.
@42 – I never understood the term “olive skinned.” While I know the meaning to be a light brown/tan skin tone, olives are green in color. To this day, I have trouble associating that term with tan skin. I have to consciously move my mind away from an actual olive.
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What really struck me was how Rand had to walk farther than Whitebridge to find a blonde person. There are lots of blonde people in Portugal, Spain, Greece or Italy. Not as much as in Northern or Central Europe, but there are. Even in Egypt, Morocco, Iran or Pakistan you can find them. For a blonde person to be a novelty, something someone never has seen in his life, you’d have to go to India, Tibet or Sudan.
@45, don’t forget that some olives are super black, too. :)
I, too, wonder where they got that name/coloring.
@45, 47, I think the name for the coloring cones from the golden color of olive oil.
@46, two Rivers is very isolated and not very diverse. The Rest of Randland is more integrated.
Not so much regarding looks, but as far as accents/relationships go. I always imagined Two Rivers as Irish to Andor as English.
I’ve heard olive as a descriptor for skin color justified a couple different ways: 1) People from the Mediterranean tend to have skin of that tone, and the region is famous for olives, hence the association; 2) It’s actually a reference to olive wood, which tends towards a darker tan.
Anyway, the total lack of blonde people in and around Two Rivers pretty strongly suggests an ethnic background that doesn’t correlate with our Greece, or much of Europe. And even looking around the rest of that proximate ancient world, many peoples–like the Scythians–were described as being pale and having light hair. But of course, the Two Rivers kids do remark on people we would call black.
I’m not sure what Jordan meant, and I’m even less sure–if that’s possible–that we ought to attempt any real world impositions (even if his world building invites some of that). Just follow the text. The people of Two Rivers are dark skinned (not just farm-tanned), with dark hair, and dark eyes. It doesn’t matter where they’d be from if transported into our world.
i highly recommend the “philosophical novel” LILA: AN INQUIRY INTO MORALS by Robert Pirsig (who, earlier, wrote ZEN AND THE ART OF MOTORCYCLE MAINTENANCE: AN INQUIRY INTO VALUES).
The book is great – basically as deep as the more famous “ZEN” – and, in it, Pirsig absolutely NAILS the reasons why a film can NEVER be the equal of a book.
They could leave out the skirt smoothing and I’d get over it.
I agree Faile getting kidnapped by the Shaido and frankly the entirety of the Prophet stuff could be left out
For the most part I’d want them to stick to the books, there’s a reason we love them. More of the first two HP movies and less of the rest.
Shifting point of view is what Jordan did chapter by chapter and it gave depth and purpose.
I’m re-reading all of them now for the first time since Memory of Light was published.
Funny, I had always mentally thought of the Aiel as being rather fair skinned (tanned white skin rather) because they’re related to the Tinkers, and my mental image of the Tinkers was that the Tinkers were similar to the Amish in terms of their keeping to their traditional lifestyle even as the world around them changes, and I just assumed that in terms of physical appearance they would look like that.
At first, I was confused and concerned about the decision to make Moiraine the POV character in the initial episodes. Then, as I thought about it more, I realized that there is one distinct advantage. In the first book, Ba’alzamon doesn’t know which of the three ta’veren is the dragon reborn. But as the reader it’s pretty obvious since Rand is the POV character. With Moiraine as the POV character, it’s going to be more of a mystery, and that may be a fun thing for people new to the series.
It really should start with Moraine/Lan ala New Spring. The scene where the Aes Sedai (her name escapes me) dies after having a foretelling that the “Dragon has been reborn” needs to happen to set the tone…..starting that way will keep non-readers guessing who the Dragon is.
Kind of like the Red Wedding in GOT, I read the books so I knew what was coming……I had the pleasure of having a house full of my people watching when the Red Wedding scene happened and their reaction was priceless. Not saying the scene at the Eye of the World is the same but still would keep non-readers guessing.
Without New Spring, you may not get understand who the Dragon is and why he is important.
In my opinion the actors will drive the success of this show. If they hire a bunch of pretty faces without acting chops…I think we’ll be in trouble (I’m thinking of the Shannara disaster). I’m also not feeling the ‘hype’ behind this like there was when Game of Thrones was in development. Anybody else sensing that?
I’ve always wondered how are they gonna cast the Aes Sedai? How do they cast for ageless features? Think it will be all supermodels or something? I’m betting that would make for terrible acting! And speaking of that, will the threads and weaving be visible to the viewers? It should be! (in most instances) I am both excited and very anxious for this series…Wheel of Time is my favorite book series, I’ve read all the way through at least 6 times! Waiting for the last book was one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do! And yes, I’ll be re-reading them all again before this series starts. (I have a problem)
@2 if they screw up Egween’s character I’M RIOTING!!!!!! If they screw up MIN I’m breaking into the studio to break stuff!! If they screw up LAN…..People may not survive…..
@57 – Ageless features are not required for the story. You can do away with it and not lose anything.
If they stick to the general plot and themes, I think it might be all right. I just hope they don’t skip pivotal moments,
Shannara would be a good place to look and learn what to avoid. They changed so much (partly for PC and partly for who knows why). They also skipped one of the biggest and most important scenes from the book – the final showdown with the Reaper. I couldn’t make myself like the show, no matter how hard I tried.
Personally, I think if the people involved are true fans of the source material, everything should work out.
I’m surprised there is little mention of the real start of the series. The prologue to TEOTW has one of the best scenes of the entire series.
@57-8
The ageless look is one thing that I think could be completely dropped. They could still mention that channelers age more slowly, but ignoring the ageless look would allow the casting of older actresses with more experience (and more talent).
@57.
Heavy makeup and the movie equivalent of a bad photoshoot that erases all age lines. Aes Sedai are not all beautiful they are just smooth faced. Once you add some old lady wigs you get older Aes Sedai you can even use older “bodies” to enhance the impact.
My biggest concern is for the poor person who ends up playing Nynaeve. They better put that poor girl in a wig because if she has to pull on her own braided hair that many times, I have serious worries for her well being.
@16, Until Sanderson came into the picture, the regular books were extremely repetitious. The series could have been about 300 – 500 pages shorter without the repetition, but that wouldn’t have been epic enough fantasy I guess.
I agree with several of the people who have spoken up. When they say “focus on Morraine” they might mean telling the prequel book, allowing the mystery of the dragon, and introducing what Aes Sedai are rather earlier than when the books did. Let’s face it, Morraine does some neat stuff, and you get the sense of them being being powerful politically connected, but you don’t see that, this way, you get to introduce key Aes Sedai much earlier that don’t pop up in the books, you can tell the Prophecy much earlier on, and give a actual sense of mystery on who the Dragon is, rather than everyone knowing it’s gonna be Rand because…he’s the main and pretty much ONLY pov character for a majority of Eye of the World until half way through, when they get separated. I just hope they don’t make Mat as obnoxious as he was in the first book, seirosuly, he acts like he’s 6, not listening to what he’s been told not less than a half hour before. I know character development is important to him especially, but it would be nice if you get to see some of his positive traits earlier on. (also, please just composite some of the Aes Sedai, I got half of them confused with the others. just keep Verrin.
Olive skinned, to me (as somebody who has it), is skin that has some yellow/bronze undertones – it’s not the same as, for example, the type of darker skin you see in Native Americans (from all Americas) (which have redder undertones), or with And to me that fits in a bit with green olives. There’s a bit of sallowness there.
I’m ok with a little artistic leeway when converting frim book to tv show. I enjoyed Kahlen from legend of the seeker even though she wasn’t blond. The actress fot the roll. They must, IMO, nail Lan, Nyvaeve and Matt as they were such complex characters. Rand, Egwene and the rest to me weren’t given quite their presence. So far as head speak, anyone here watched BSG with Baltar and his “head six”? That was real only to him? Done right it could work very well.
Hopefully the scene surrounding Rand and carrying his wounded Father through the woods (I think it was winter time) Him getting the Heron Sword from his father, Tam Al Thor and fighting off the Trolloc’s I think it was, been so long since I have read the books, but I plan to read them again. Wonder how they will use Manetheran, maybe a slowing down of time effect where the audience is then thrust back into real time and something significantly changes to help Rand, Mat, and Perrin along in their journey. I find it a really challenging responsibility that these characters find the right actors and writers. I hope this series can top Game of Thrones as I haven’t seen it I haven’t read the books either. Need better puppets for the Ogre and hope they don’t look anything like the dark crystal puppets, terrible acting sequences.
Morraine will be a good focus for the show to begin with as, as people have previously said, she is the driving force for most of first book. As long as they set the others up enough for when their paths diverge. This divergence can give them time to really focus on the other main characters; Perrin and Egwene, Mat and Rand, Nynaeve with Morraine and Lan.
As for structure, they’ll have to change something. The books are too long for a faithful adaption with any hope of being finished; 10 seasons is a great run for a season and dependent on huge success. A faithful adaption would need 14!
As for Perrin, Faile and Shaido Aiel…. I am happy if this is changed but a similar situation needs to be introduced. A large criticism is that this did nothing for Perrin’s story arc but I disagree; this set him up as a leader in the eyes of his forces. Until that point, he was a friend to Dragon Reborn with no ‘right to lead’. This arc established him as a leader in his own right (and his own internal dilemma). It did go on a bit though.
I am pleased that Sanderson is so close to the production and getting a say on scripts and direction. This gives me more faith for a good adaption.
I read Sanderson’s statement and my mind goes directly to Terry Brooks saying the same thing about the abomination that the Shannara TV series was. I’m not going to lie and say I’m a little nervous about a this TV adaptation
This is the first time I’ve ever been kind of happy to hear about changes in an adaptation. Normally I’m pretty much a purist, and I love WoT, but …
@70 There’s a difference here, I think. there was a awful tv pilot of Eye of the World a few years back, and Jordan’s widow, Harriet McDougal was PISSED. she had a big legal battle to get the rights back and to give them to Sony Pictures. I think with this, its not just Sanderson saying “its gonna be good!” its her saying “I give my permission” which is more important, and shows that she and Brandon may be doing some checking. It also helps that she was his editor, so she knows the story inside and out . Terry Brooks was just about the money, of course he would say that the adaptation would be good, he would get the royalty check and he would need to encourage people to watch it. Sanderson wouldn’t likely get the same check, as he was just the author McDougal got to finish the story, any money would go to her, and she seems the type to be more concerned about her late husband’s legacy and story than the cash, at least the way she handled the situation in general.
Critiques aside of Harry Potter Books to Movies which in the end right or wrong have nothing to do with this as yet unseen adaptation to a TV Series which is totally different from a 2hr to 2-1/2 hr Movie of a book. Movies (or TV series) hardly ever fully satisfy a fan who has read the book anyway.
We are talking 40 to 50 minutes probably per episode of at least 10 episodes per season of story. On average then that will put each Book (if they do a book a season but with them probably adding in New Spring to Eye of the World as a combo season) at about being an 8hr Movie per season. And that’s actually pretty generous because if most readers know Robert Jordan he loved exposition and scene set up to NO END (to a fault at times with every other 5 pages)
I also think the screenwriters can clean up some of the misogynistic tone at times (strong women characters or not) to the movie…and to also lift up the women overall. I think he made almost ALL the woman either to motherly or too bitchy and a catty at times and a lot of the men as idiots or clueless. For all our favorite characters seeming dimension espoused byus they could all be fairly flat to me.
If the writers and directors want this to be a success then they will have give us better characters to love than bitch bitch whine whine ones as that is what Season 8 Game of Thrones turned to be for me.
To clarify, when I say keep Moraine as focus, I do not mean start with a New Spring. For the first book, Moraine is trying to decide which one is the Dragon Reborn. This could be the Main focus of the show. If they build up the Dragon Reborn as a potential madman, worse than Trollocs or Fades, that will destroy the world AND “save it”……and then end season 1 with the revelation…
This will keep that tension, for as long as possible, of the Dragon’s potential instability. Then you have tension from not only the chase by Dark One and his minions but also the prospect of insanity for one of the heroes. This will obviously play into his later ‘tipping point’ but also most of his actions; is he insane looking to conquer for personal gain and wealth? Or is he doing his best to prepare for Tar’mon Gai’din?
@74 – I agree with your general point. Re timing for the revelation, as one of the episode titles in mid-season is called The Dragon Reborn, I’m guessing they’ll drop it then.
By the way, as a serious pet peeve, the description for the series says that magic can be used only by women when they should say it can only be used “safely” by women.
@75 – mid-season 1?! I hope that’s not the ‘revelation’!
I believe this will be the point where Moraine tells them that she is helping them as she believes one of them is Dragon Reborn. [Spoiler] doesn’t find out until end of book 1 and book 2 is about him searching for the truth. Build that tension, earn that release.
RE: Aes Sedai, The One Power and ageless faces.
For a start, if Disney can de-age people, Sony can add a little ‘poor VFX’ for an obvious juxtaposition of age and appearance . Is it required? Not really, though it implies a ‘worldliness’ in the books when someone can spot an Aes Sedai face. It also sets them apart from ‘rich noblility’ (in appearance).
The One Power; they *MUST* show it. To differentiate between who can and can’t see it, just show it being used in front of a mixed group. First episode this can be Egwene and Moraine in the ‘branch hut/pit’ they hide in on flight from Two Rivers. Show Moraine using One Power, solid weaves and all, switch to Egwene’s perspective (over shoulder shot maybe) and it is unsubstantial and intermittent, but there. Then have one of the men walk in and see nothing but the glow [of the stone – the physical effect]. In one scene, you know who can and can’t see it. This can be used later for the men and also help show that Men can’t see women’s and vice Versa; help establish how different each ‘Power’ is from the other.
This can then be used consistently through series; whenever an Aes Sedia is using power and focus of scene, they can see the weaves. If the focus is with someone else and One Power used, just show the effect without the weaves.
Why center around Moiraine? She seems important, so much so – and she disappears and the whole time she is gone it seems important!
Then, she comes back and does nothing. Even “being there with Rand at the end (like Nynaeve)” they do nothing. They literally do nothing. It’s super dumb.
Honestly, I can’t get the atrocities that were the Sword of Truth and Shannara series out of my mind…. and heaven forbid that dreadful nightmare that was *shudder*…. Winter Dragon. Every time a book is made into a movie it seems that it gets butchered. I have hopes that this will not be the case with WoT, but given the scope of the books, the sheer number of running plot points, characters, locations, etc. I’m finding it less and less likely that it won’t be butchered in the same way as the former examples.
I don’t have any problem with changes to the story when it comes to adaptations – that’s why they call them adaptations. WOT is a long book series, and there’s inevitably going to have to be some chopping down of the storyline to fit it all in. I don’t mind, for example, the scriptwriters taking an axe to the whole subplot of Faile getting kidnapped by the rogue Aiel and Perrin taking 3 or 4 BOOKS to rescue her. That whole subplot brought the storyline to a crashing halt. If Jordan hadn’t been padding things there he’d have finished the series before he died. Have some rogue Aiel running around if they have to, but don’t focus on that for 4 seasons, for crying out loud. Other than that, I’m looking forward to what they do in the show.
I think most of us can agree the plotline of doom must go.
@81 – It would be great if the TV series ever got far enough for the PoD to be an issue. I bet they would still do it but have it be a 2-3 episode arc instead.
I just really hope that they learn the right lessons from Game of Thrones. I think the absolute best thing GoT did right was nailing the look and feel of the world (and the cinematography). GoT has a realness to it that basically every other fantasy TV show or movie doesn’t.
Who am I kidding? We’ll probably get Mat having random sex scenes and Perrin having a wife or something.
I’m rather ambivalent to WoT, except for introducing me to Brandon. I thought they went rapidly downhill after book 3, and appeared to be desperately grasping for new ideas instead of getting on with it. When I found out that RJ was ill it was kind of penny dropping and explained a lot.
When Brandon took over he dispensed with the whole incongruous heaving bossoms which cheered me up endlessly. I know there’s been debates over this subject, my view: zero need for it, and just came across like a pervy man fantasising in a book he was writing, maybe I was just ahead of the curve in the 90s? Has always seemed to be that way.
WoT started strong, although – when you look at it, you can easily pull the threads to the influences, for instance the Nazgul on the Road scene vs TEOTW early chapter where Rand see’s someone who’s cloak doesn’t move. There is a great story, but soooo much chaff… the whole crud around “mercedes” etc, too over connected: doesn’t need it. The whole rubbish Jordan pulled with the Asmodean thing for years – annoying… did we have all the answers… nope, he thought it was obviously cause he knew the answer. And this whole subject I could go on about – the new Star Wars films… overly connected – bad writing, because they’re just not bright enough to realise that’s not how it works. Walk around any average sized city and work out how many times you bump into someone you know. Yes, there are occurrences but it’s not like they happen in these medias.
But then, isn’t that one of the great things that happened with Game of Thrones? They took that and turned into some much more concise, stripping a lot of non-needed things: Lady Stoneheart… I didn’t care. Brilliant editing. Season 8 tho… Great Editors, Mediocre Writers by themselves, ah well, can’t be everything.
I could go on about some of my current favourite writers doing this Abercrombie/Lawrence – seriously – I will rave about these to other people, their books are some of the most enjoyable I’ve read in years, and actually treat the reader like an adult. They’re still a little tropey, for instance “Go fetch the Macguffin ” of First Law, but it’s just there as a carrier for the characters, and that’s what GoT had was characters. WoT… has Mat… and some winey other characters, but come on we only ever cared about Mat. (But lets hope they get rid of the dice in his head thing, what a terrible idea that was… I sighed when that happened and had to put the book down)
Personally, I think this is going to be a misstep, and undo some of the glorious work that Harry Potter and GoT has done in making Fantasy acceptable amongst the great unwashed, and we’ll back to very poorly funded Shannara/The Outpost type crud. (Seriously… stop just putting a pretty Mary Sue type character as the lead… look at bloody Vikings instead that works and is borderline fantasy because the characters are realistic and honest).
Ok, enough venting about being disappointed by WoT – I’m 40+, grumpy, currently ill from stomach flu and going stir crazy at home for 4 days… but I have read too many fantasy books over the years… as well as many other books you supposedly should have read, so I’m supposedly not a complete Luddite. So my advice from all of this really is avoid Don Quixote, it’s not the greatest novel as claimed by people who’ve only read up to the Windmill bit (about p20) it’s repetitive bilge. Go read Dumas “The Count of Monte Christo” (although my god does that need a good abridging as well). And at the end of the day it’s your money, your whiskey, so do what you damn well like with it!
With regard to ethnicity:
– There are plenty of people with brown hair, brown eyes and white skin. That’s how I see Two rivers folk and I think that’s how RJ saw them as well.
– The Murandians appear to be based on the Irish. Think of Padan fain’s accent and the Murandians contentious and rebellious behaviour.
– Tairens, Ilianers and coastal Altarans appear to based on Mediterranean archetypes.
– Sea Folk are portrayed as being dark-skinned, but with straight hair.
– The north-western lands appear to have some middle-eastern or central Asian inspiration with regard to their appearance.
– The central strip running from Tanchico through Amador, Ghealdan, Andor, Tar Valon and Cairhien appear to have mainly western European influences but with some with some idiosyncratic features of RJ’s own devising.
With regard to the proposed series, the main challenge, apart from length, will probably be in how to deal with the characters’ internal dialogues. In the books, the internal dialogues show not only how the characters see themselves, but it also provides a lot of the humour in the books, especially with regard to the story lines of Mat, Nynaeve, and Elayne.
Some of the internal dialogue could be turned into actual dialogue, especially in the early books. It’s difficult to see why the characters would not share some of their less personal thoughts with their friends, and there were plenty of opportunities to do that in the early books when they were mostly together.
At other times you could have the characters speaking their thoughts aloud to themselves, especially when surprised or in times of stress. This wouldn’t seem unnatural as long as it wasn’t overdone.
Apart from this, all of the main characters have confidantes with whom they can talk – Mat with Thom, Rand with Min, Perrin with Loial, Egwene with Aviendha and then Siuan, Elayne with Nynaeve, Birgitte, and Aviendha, even Moiraine with Lan. These confidantes change at various times throughout the story but I can see the writers working on creating scenes where the characters divulge some of their inner thoughts to their respective confidantes. this could make the characters much more real and sympathetic to viewers of the series.
@73
From the episode titles revelaed by the showrunner, it seems the pace is something like 10 chapters in 1 episode, or 1 book in 5 episodes. If the series has 10 episodes in one season, that means 2 books in 1 season.
Rand better be male. Ogre better be in it. Hope its not rushed like last book number 14 that really disapointed me.
The show runners basically said they are going to make it woke for the sake of making it woke. Which means, instead of making a truly good adaptation they are planning to cater to a specific group of people who care more about “diversity” than they do about quality storytelling. It’s bound to upset a lot of true fans.
If it was good enough for Jordan, it should be good enough for us without “updating it for 2019”.
They can’t even get the casting right to mirror what the characters in the book were. At least they got that right in LOTR!!